An Interview with Michael Heitmann (for the Dai-Sogen Gazette Newsletter, 1996)

Veteran radio broadcaster Michael Heitmann has been a fixture in Winnipeg’s multi-cultural community for over a decade. He has also been the host of ‘Today’s Japan’, a weekly radio program profiling the local Japanese-Canadian community as well as all things Japanese. It is a program that has been sponsored by the Consulate-General of Japan for over twenty years. Tom Robles recently had a chance to speak to Mr. Heitmann about his show, his travels, and the uniqueness of Manitoba’s multicultural mosaic. Here, in part, is the interview.

Tom Robles: Why service the Japanese community in Winnipeg with a radio broadcast?

Michael Heitmann: Twenty-two years ago, it was the idea of the Japanese consulate.

TR: So it’s been in place for a long time?

MH: The Consulate-General at that time initiated the program. Japan was always interested in presenting the proper image overseas, and what they’re all about. This program isn’t so much for the Japanese community as it is maybe for the general community. I hope that we have some Japanese-Canadians listening out there, but it was started for people who don’t know anything about Japan. Informative, to let them know a little bit more about Japan .

TR: You also run this multi-cultural radio station, broadcasting service. Would that also be the purpose of what you do here as well?

MH: We try to reach the various ethnic communities of Winnipeg , mostly in their own language. There are maybe exceptions, but mostly in their own language. We have about 15 different languages on the air.

TR: What initiated the founders of this station to put together a station that was exclusively devoted to multi-cultural audiences.

MH: Well, it’s a natural thing for Manitoba , because we are such a diverse province. It also wasn’t the first. We have a sister station in Montreal , CFMB, which ten years ago, started a program on the same basis. To my knowledge there’s another station in Vancouver which is CJBB, and there’s another network in Toronto .

TR: What would you say counts as one of your memorable experiences?

MH: Well, in terms of guests, the German program that I do, we’ve brought over many, many performers who in Germany are considered to be stars. I grew up knowing some of the names, and getting to meet some of these people one on one. As far as our local scene is concerned, it has opened some doors, and has gotten me to meet some very famous people, actors to politicians. The highlights connected with the Japan program, and the personal highlight for me was the trip to Japan in 1992.

TR: Yes, I’d like you to tell me a bit more about that.

MH: It was something that was initiated by the Consulate-General here in Winnipeg. I had been talking about Japan all these years, trying to tell people what it’s like, but you’ve never really experienced it yourself, so they have a program for journalists that make these visits possible. I dared not hope, but I put in the application, and sure enough, I got the word, and then, in April 1992, I went to Japan for two weeks as the guest of the Foreign Ministry.

TR: What was that like for you?

MH: I’m still living off of that one.

TR: Really?

MH: It was amazing. Here I was, originally from Germany , I hadn’t really traveled that much - Canada and the States, back and forth to Germany a few times. Here I was, going off to Japan . This was at once scary, and the anticipation was incredible. The visit itself went by much too fast. I was met at the airport by an interpreter, by a guide, Saito-san, a gentleman who was by my side for the whole two weeks, which was an incredible benefit. There was a whole tour laid out for me that took me up to Nara, in the mountains, over to Kyoto , down to Mikimoto island, to Fuji-San, and to Tokyo .

TR: So you went to see the cultivation of pearls?

MH: Yes, I did. Fascinating. Kyoto was such a historical city. Just a wonderful place to visit. Along the way, we visited temples and shrines. I did a lot of filming. I was like the proverbial Japanese tourist in North America , always having a camera in front of the face. Well, now I know why. There’s so much to see.

TR: Were you required to report back on your trip to your audiences?

MH: Not in so many words. I used a lot of material that I took on that tape in Japan of interviews and things of that nature, and I used that for the program. Naturally. I, among others, was given a greeting and a gift by our then mayor, William Norrie, who is now the Honourary Consul for Japan . He made the arrangements for me to see Mayor Oba in Setagaya, our sister city.

TR: Setagaya is the sister-city for Winnipeg ?

MH: That is correct. There has always been an annual exchange going on, which not too many people know about.

TR: What does that usually entail?

MH: Usually school children. So that’s a very interesting thing. There was a gentle- man, one of the councilors from Setagaya, who has very lively and a regular contact for Winnipeg . Then, I was given a tour of the Zai-shinbun, one of the largest newspapers in Japan . I was given a tour of NHK (Nihon Hoso Kokusai - the national radio and television broadcasting station). I also sat down for an interview with a young lady who was on her second term as a JET participant in Tokyo . So it was kind of strange. Here were these two Canadians down in Tokyo doing an interview.

TR: Quiet poetic!

MH: Yes, it was, and she actually had a fascinating story to tell, aside from having just a wonderful time and enjoying her visit. She apparently had, in her class at school, one or two children from the Imperial household. One of these children had a birthday, and she was invited to the palace.

TR: My goodness!

MH: She told me about that it was obviously a very moving experience. Just grand. Then of course, I stuck the microphone in many people’s faces.

TR: A roving reporter?

MH: Yes, I see myself standing in the middle of the train station. You know how busy it gets there. I’m about a head above everybody else. As you know, I’m not a very hairy guy. Here’s this tall, bald gaijin (foreigner) standing at Tokyo station, and everybody is giving me these looks, and the little kids are [awestruck].

TR: Even in ‘92? Tokyo is a very cosmopolitan city, isnt' it?

MH: It is, but maybe it was because I had never been a visible minority before. It was a first for me. I think that it was great.

TR: But I’m surprised that they took that much notice.

MH: Not really like they would do here. They wouldn’t really stare because that’s not a polite thing to do. The kids were priceless. I had a couple come at me pointing the finger, and going “Gaijin” (foreginer), and Mom just whacked their fingers really quick. That wasn’t considered to be nice, but I enjoyed that. It was just the strangest feeling, saying to myself, “So this is what it’s like to be a visible minority.”

TR: I am not sure how extensive your visit was to both the Asahi-Shinbun (one of the largest newspapers in Japan) and NHK (Nihon Hoso Kokusai - the national radio and television broadcasting station), but how would you compare the North American style of journalism with the Japanese one?

MH: Not having been able to read the papers, I’m not sure what their style is like. What impressed me the most, what surprised me the most was when I went in there, the offices are so totally different - the whole setup. When you walk in there, there’s no such thing as everybody having their own little office, their own little private space. All it is a row of desks, a huge amount of paperwork. In between, there were numerous ashtrays with cigarette smoke rising up. It had the look of the old ‘50s newsroom, and the newspaper room like you see in the movies sometimes. I mean everyone was really busy and at it, but it didn’t have the North American feel to it. At the end of the huge office, there was one room that was windowed off, and there was one gentleman sitting in there obviously in charge of most of this. I found that there were none of the frills that we get used to over here like having your own office, your own desk, your own space. No, they just have a typewriter, and the paperwork at their own desk, and they just went at it and did it. NHK was a little different. I found that they had some of the latest equipment, needless to say, and again, very busy but with a very nice creative air in there. I got to talk to a few radio producers there, and a couple of TV producers, and it struck me as a little bit like CBC-not hurried, but very much to the point, very imaginative, very involved in their business. I also observed the interaction of the people there. I didn’t know these people, who they were, or what their rank was, but you could tell who was important in a crowd.

TR: Very interesting. I would just like to draw a parallel between your visit, as a visiting journalist, and say, either Winnipeg , Canadian or an international citizen, to Japan . What would say, being an outsider of the JET programme, and yet having gone there yourself, would be the benefit of having foreigners visit Japan ?

MH: Well, the most obvious benefit that jumps to my mind, is that you can no longer discriminate against someone that you have spent time with. We’ve all had our conceptions of Japan , and ideas we’re used to. A lot of people still do. You know, Japan being a small island out there in the Pacific, and then for a while being the powerhouse of industry that it is. So we have preconceived notions of Japan . What I found going there is that it is a very courteous society. Extremely hospitable. I mean, I walked into situations where they didn’t know who I was. I was a guy from Canada , or whatever. I was obviously a foreigner. I would go into a store, for instance, and they would know you were from out of town. But you were still received as though people were expecting you half the time. I found walking the streets of Tokyo a few times, it was almost like walking the streets of Berlin. So I found similarities and differences. Everywhere there was a temple, or temple gardens, I would go in. I just love Japanese gardens. In the middle of Tokyo , where my hotel was, right next to it was a temple and a huge temple garden. It was like you were always from out of town. So, it reminded me very much of Berlin . Berlin has lots of parks, lots of green spaces where you can get out of the hustle and bustle. Also trees and hedges along the streets. I liked that: very clean sidewalks, very few car horns.

TR: Well, we don’t have a lot of car horns here, either.

MH: Every once in a while you hear someone leaning on the horn, and getting a little too excited. The way they drive over there, and I was in a taxi a few times, where I thought the guy was being cut off like crazy. Yet he never lost his cool. Never lost his temper, nothing. So it’s a whole different outlook that you get.

TR: You mentioned before about feeling like a visible minority. Now you come from a multicultural city, if not country, you suddenly go to a homogenous one, what was that like for you? Did you at any point, in the two weeks that you were there, feel like you were living life in a fishbowl? Stared at, gawked at, ridiculed?

MH: Never ridiculed, and never really gawked at. However, always taken notice of, yes. I noticed that wherever I went, eyes went with me. I was, of course trying to be on my best behaviour because here I am a guest of the Foreign Ministry. It was sort of quite official in some way, even though I’m not that important a person. I’ve got to be careful of what I say and do.

TR: But how did you feel though, in reality?

MH: In reality, I felt very well. I felt that the interest that they showed in me was a positive interest. I can remember going to a temple in Kyoto , and there was a group of school children out on a bus tour, touring the same temple. I think they were about, 13 or 14. Well, three of them, after they had looked me over and talked amongst themselves, got up enough nerve to say “Hi”. So they came up and said, “Hi! How are you?” Of course, I said “Hi” back and tried to involve them in conversation, and found out that their English wasn’t as good as maybe they wished it was. Then they got a little embarrassed, laughed and ran back to their teacher. Then the teacher came over and said, “I am very sorry.” I said, “There’s nothing to be sorry about. This is great.” So he got them back and we started talking a little bit with their broken English, and I used two or three of my Japanese phrases on them. They just had a great time. So, the attention that I did get, yes, it was extra, it was all special and positive.

TR: The reason I ask is because many JET’s who go to Japan, especially if they are visible minorities, after a little while the novelty fades off, and the kinds of attention they get from Japanese people reaches a point where they just can’t tolerate it anymore.

MH: I never had that feeling. Not once. In the hotel, in the streets, in the shops, I never had that feeling.

TR: You are a person who has lived in a multicultural society for a very long time. You yourself come from a very homogenous one. You were born there, I presume? In Germany ? How old were you when you came here?

MH: 23

TR: So you know what it’s like to live in a homogenous society.

MH: Although I’m not sure I would consider Germany homogenous. I think that Germany , even then, in the mid - late 50’s it started changing because Germany , as you know is part of the Economic Miracle. They imported workers from all over Europe. They became very multicultural. We had Greeks, we had Italians, and they all came because we had lots of work and needed the workers. So at that time, I got used to somewhat of a multicultural society.

TR: How would you explain the whole concept of multiculturalism to Japan ?

MH: I am of two minds here. In one way, I think Japan is better off not being multi-cultural because the traditions are being kept up more. The way of life seems to be more single-minded. Everybody knows which way they’re going, where they’re coming from. There isn’t that confusion that is sometimes associated with multiculturalism. There aren’t special interest groups up in the air saying, “I want this, I want that, and I’m entitled.” I love multicultural aspects, multilingual things, I love different nations, different customs and all that stuff. However, sometimes I wonder if it doesn’t become a bit disruptive.

TR: But do you think that it’s because it’s just a phase that we’re going through, that someday we will reach a saturation point, and say “Well, that’s just the way it is, and we don’t have to demonstrate anymore”?

MH: I hope that that’s what eventually makes us Un-Canadians. I think that that’s what we should all be working towards. I hope that one day we can all say, “Forget where we came from. We’re here. We’re Canadians. We’ve been here for so many generations. This is it.”

TR: But then, is there a danger also of losing our heritage in the way that perhaps America has. And I’m not sure if what you’re saying is analogous with the American mentality of a “melting pot”, but do you think we are threatened if we take on that stance?

MH: No, I think it’s being over-rated in America because when you go the States, as I have on a couple of occasions to visit certain functions, you find out very quickly that that “melting pot” is an official one. When it comes to the individuals and the families and the people, and the events, there is no “melting pot”. I met German-Americans in the States, whose families have been there for 200-300 years, who still have the name, who still wear the costume, who still do the German traditional things, and speak the language. Some of them can, and some of them can’t. I saw a family there that was decked out more German than any I’ve seen in Germany. Yet, they don’t speak German, but the kids had the costumes on and I thought it was just the greatest thing. So I really don’t think the “melting pot” has to become a reality. I think that what has become the reality is that you have to make up your mind-where you live, and where you want to live, and what country you want to be part of. I’m a Canadian and I’m very proud of it, but I’ll tell anyone who wants to know that I come from Germany . I have certain things that I keep up at home. I think the key phrase here is “at home”. This is my own choice. My children both speak German, that’s their choice. I don’t force it on them.

TR: How important do you think it is to retain one’s language and heritage, in maintaining one’s culture?

MH: Well, now we live in a global village, so whatever extra language you can pick up or have, can only benefit you. It’s nothing to jump over to Germany , it’s no big deal to go to Japan anymore for lots of people. The more you have a second or third language even, I think it’s great. The more the better.

TR: Wonderful! Thank you very much!

MH: My pleasure.